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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 19:57:00 -
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So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.20 20:19:00 -
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Brahan Seer wrote: Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Somer however, were offering ISK credits last year and then attempting to do the same through a PLEX buyback program. They aren't comparable like you're attempting to portray. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 20:32:00 -
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dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner?
Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous. Nor does it permit the
They don't provide any incentive to the consumer, i.e. the reader, to use their referral links, read their site etc. outside of aiming to provide "higher quality content" (their words). The ad revenue earned from the service they provide, for free, is no different than zKillboard/EVE-Kill putting ads on their site. It's no different than an EVE player making an EVE video and monetizing it on YouTube to earn real money. Savvy? LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 20:38:00 -
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Lae Allier wrote:Sorry but the companys you just mentioned are run as a business model and make real money out of it so that too is against CCP rules so I want to see the owners banned publicly as well, as it states
- Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.
All of the formentioned "companys" recieve real money as a result of EVE Online. I will be pursuing this further !
Cool, that's probably the best thing to do if you believe it's violating the EULA. Be sure to speak eloquently and clearly about the issues rather than making claims without any basis on facts or reality. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 20:51:00 -
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dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:dexington wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Except that in the case of Zkillboard, Dotlan, CZ, TMC etc. there is no in-game reward for using their referral links. They aren't providing any incentive other than "help us keep this running and that's all we ask." Is TMC not paying people isk to write articles for the sites, which in return gives ad revenue to the owner? Yes they do pay their EVE writers in ISK. This falls in line with CCP's policy pertaining to paying in-game ISK for EVE content such as art, signatures, videos etc. The policy doesn't allow for writers to be paid for non-EVE related work such as writing an article on The Witcher 3 or Elite Dangerous TMC is not a eve only website, and according to the chat logs "leaked" on reddit eve players play other games which makes it possible to find write for non eve content within the eve community. TMC is no a community site, it's a professional gaming site, with the twist it pays the writers in isk. We are not talk about non profit work, the owner is clearly paying people isk to write articles, to make money of ads... It might not be as direct RMT as what somer was doing, but in the end it's RMT.
As a former writer for TheMittani.com (I'm UbaStij in the leaked logs) you're incorrect. After the SomerBlink incident last year, CCP spoke to sites like TMC etc. and stated the guidelines and rules they were to abide by. This also was done for sites like EVE-Bet.com and others. These have been followed out and thus far there is no indication the policies were violated.
Yes, TMC writes about other non-EVE games but contributors aren't paid EVE ISK for that work. The EVE articles and non-EVE articles are, by CCP's Policy and other guidelines set up outside of CCP, separated in how they're compensated for due to the stated reasons. Contrary to popular belief, TMC doesn't make all that much money beyond covering server costs and other overhead expenses. If you were to say, and provide evidence, of TMC paying their writers EVE ISK in-game for writing about non-EVE content you would be correct in saying they are breaking the policy CCP enforces upon them. Until then, it's speculation and hearsay plain and simple. As I previously stated, the fact TMC runs ads on its site is no different than me running ads on my YouTube channel which features EVE video content. Both are permitted per CCP and aren't deemed as RMT schemes etc. Again, if you feel this is a violation of CCP's EULA/TOS with the user, contact CCP's support or ask CCP Falcon/CCP Manifest to comment on it publicly to put your concerns to rest. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 21:03:00 -
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Lae Allier wrote:Just to clarify my point - The other websites that run at the moment recieve Real money from traffic that is generated from EVE in turn the owner gets paid $ he then buys someone a plex for real money becuase of a player.
So :-
1. Player generates traffic to a site in which the owner gets money. 2. Then some of that money is turned into PLEX - Owner must have an account to purchase as well as keeping extra money. 3. Player recieves PLEX
Thats in direct Violation of EULA - The owner is running the website as a buisness
You seem to believe you are infallibly correct, so prove it to CCP that sites running ads and compensating contributors with in-game ISK are a violation of EULA to them. Argue it and see what CCP says. Pretty simple really. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.20 21:19:00 -
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Anaphylacti wrote:While I do think Somer crossed the RMT line with their latest promotion, CCP was a little too heavy handed on banning the initial Promotion of BLINK CREDIT for purchasing through their link.
I'm not sure about other resellers but I have had emails from Markee Dragon Promoting a raffle giveaway for Rifter models and in-game assets, "skinned Iteron, etc..", for buying gtc off them. Considering that Somer Blink was giving CREDIT for their own service for purchasing GTC through their link, I fail to see how it differs from Markees Raffle and in-game asset gifts. No actual in-game assets were being given for the purchase.
Had Somer Blink used a different method of currency instead of calling their credit ISK and perhaps calling it Blink Bucks or something it probably wouldn't have been brought up.
Is their any in-depth post like this one that refers to that event and why that promotion was banned?
Shut up Ana. <3
Edit - Real talk:
The reason the "credit through buying through our GTC link" was shot down was due to how it could be used to get in-game goods over someone in an unfair way.
The raffles/skinned ships are, as far as I can tell, given to the GTC reseller to do as they want. I'm not sure of what the contract says in how they can use them but they'd be utterly idiotic to abuse that system as they'd lose their partnership with CCP. That is a different thing than what Somer were trying to do. Markee are an authorized seller, Somer aren't that's also a difference that needs to be understood. Just because Somer had an agreement to set up a referral link with Markee Dragon (which is no different than using an Amazon referral link) it doesn't make Somer a CCP Authorized PLEX/GTC seller. It's essentially just a way for Markeet/Amazon/ShatteredCrystals etc. to help spread their market share without much cost involved. There's a small kickback but again, it doesn't mean that CCP are giving Somer or whomever the same priveleges they give to Amazon/Markee/etc. by proxy. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:06:00 -
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Brahan Seer wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Well you pay ISk for siggy / Killboardz that isk than goes to a corprations account. Which i assume is used for something, if its not why do those sites charge isk? Now theorethically if that ISK really just sits in a corp wallet and is never touched sure I would agree its not for business purposes and no violation occurring. But do either of us really think those piggy banks aren't touched by the players who created those services? That's not a business. CCP explicitly allows payment in ISK for EVE related services, such as creating sigs and banners, running servers for Teamspeak/Mumble/Jabber/etc., and writing articles. How is it not a business? What stops them from selling PLEX or ISK or whatever? They should be fully investigated just like Somer. Cause it is a Business just becausee a business doesn't make money doesn't mean its not a business.
Since you seem to be dead set on this: CCP Manifest or CCP Falcon can you please comment in reference to my first post in this thread to clarify if sites like EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. are in violation of RMT policy or the other policies and what those other policies are for those who aren't aware? Thanks.
Edit - Referenced post - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4933788#post4933788 LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:42:00 -
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Riela Tanal wrote:Since my question most likely got burried with the rage posts and trolling.
CCP Falcon, does this issue with SOMER Blink have any affect on the prizes they donated to Theomachy?
We have handed those out to players already.
My guess is it won't. If there were assets tied up on Somer's end (i.e. not contracted over) then you may be SOL. I don't think CCP will take any ISK or assets from you since they came from Somer. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.20 23:12:00 -
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Brahan Seer wrote:Wow 50 shades of dumb, nice professionalism Falcon.
You could contact CCP's HR if you feel inclined to do so. That or ***** on forums in a spat of rage. Whichever you want really. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:44:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote:1st off I don't believe RMTing was performed here, CCP provides the PLEX/GTC to the third party vendors
Somer isn't, nor should be mistaken for, a third party vendor of PLEX/GTC sales.
crimsonshank wrote:closing SOMER down is like cutting your nose off to spite your face! that is lost revenue for CCP that doesn't make sense.
Somer closed their site down. CCP didn't tell them to, per Somer's statement. That's an issue on their end, not CCP's.
crimsonshank wrote:I have seen it go from B.O.B. online to now Gewns online might as well feed them blue prints and let TMC stay up with its RMT practices just sweep it under the rug like they did with Bob incident.
Citation needed for TMC & GoonSwarm's "RMT practices." Without that evidence, it's simply rumor mongering and hearsay which CCP said not to do in this thread.
crimsonshank wrote:For the record the CSM is a mistake and a joke its only a free vacation to a select few paid for by the subscribers. Pat yourselves on the back you just provided a fully paid vacation for some other *******.
I'm sorry you are so worked up over a video game you feel the need to throw ad hominem at people who put their free time aside to help the game and it's community out for free. Perhaps you can find, or even make, a better game that isn't so full of issues and problems you seem to be worked up about. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 00:55:00 -
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Ohkewl wrote:So the short version is, since Somer shutdown his site CCP couldnt make any more money off him from the increased plexsales, so we now might as well ban him to calm the angry mob.
This is an oversimplification and accuses people at CCP of malicious intent. Something that, you know, isn't smart to accuse people of. If you think there's a flaw with what they did or that there were ulterior motives contact CCP's Internal Affairs team with the evidence.
Ohkewl wrote:Good job at damagecontrol CCP. I see devs and csm members are already patting themselves on the back for a job well done. Also rather funny to see all the hate here towards Somer from all the guys that paid $10 to get into a corp with a 120% SRP program.
Having an SA account doesn't automatically qualify you for GoonWaffe/GoonSwarm membership. That said, you don't have to have an SA account to get into GoonSwarm so this is, as most of your posts are, slander and hearsay. I know you didn't get your way, but to attack others in the way you're complaining people are "attacking" Somer is rather hypocritical. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 01:20:00 -
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Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 01:28:00 -
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Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote: So woah wait a second... people are paying REAL LIFE MONEY to Goonswarm in exchange for a advanced SRP program in EvE???? And THATS okay!?
No, people for a SomethingAwful.com account which has been a thing long before EVE was around. Having said account doesn't mean you automatically have access to GSF as an EVE player nor are you obligated to join and not all of GSF's members are from SA. Though really through the sheer amount of cognitive dissonance, I'll probably find out having a YouTube account in which I make monetized EVE videos is somehow illegal in your mind despite CCP signing off on it. Strap yourselves in boys, ten more pages of crying about Goons. Having people pay real life money for any service or product is by definition RMT just cause they may get special services unrelated to EvE doesn't matter.
Cool, report it to CCP then as RMT and outline why. I look forward to seeing the results. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 01:36:00 -
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Brahan Seer wrote:Considering its goons online probably nothing and already did report it thanks
OK, so you're gonna ***** and moan while making accusations without actually doing anything about it. Sounds like a good use of your time.
Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
OK, so you're also making excuses for not doing anything. Gotcha, well I hear World of Warcraft is getting an expansion in a couple of weeks you could try that. Or maybe Star Citizen, I hear that's a good game. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 02:07:00 -
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Ohkewl wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Considering its goons online probably nothing and already did report it thanks OK, so you're gonna ***** and moan while making accusations without actually doing anything about it. Sounds like a good use of your time. Ohkewl wrote:If CCP have proven anything yet, it's that you can get away with anything, as long as you have a large enough mob behind you.
OK, so you're also making excuses for not doing anything. Gotcha, well I hear World of Warcraft is getting an expansion in a couple of weeks you could try that. Or maybe Star Citizen, I hear that's a good game. 1 last question, why didnt you ask anyone for proof in the previous thread where all the post were made screaming for Somer's head without any proof? All sorts of accusations were made, no proof was needed.
Because by the time I entered that thread, Somer had posted his correspondence with CCP's VP of Global Sales and his Affiliate proposal. I'm sorry you missed that part of the facts. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 03:34:00 -
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Ban Bindy wrote:Hava Heart wrote:I would just like to thank the Members of CSM; Xander Pheona, Sion Kumitomo, and mynnna for showing us that its okay to mock, and insult other players of this community. Thank you for showing us what that CSM tag leads you to believe what you may do. I'm sure you lot do CCP Falcon proud. Thank you for showing us the professionalism as members of the CSM that we can come to expect.
Am I not allowed my opinion? I did not flame or denigrate anybody.
I posted simply to thank those who supported Somer over the years, To share what I saw from Somer as another player, however I can see that the CSM Members are out to even attack the staff of Somer.Blink, who at the end of the day are just normal everyday players such as yourselves. I had pretty much the same reaction to the CSM replies. The whole affair felt pretty righteously handled until this page of the thread when the venom became so clear on the part of the really classy guys who responded to the earlier post. Bernie Madoff, really? That's a pretty strange comparison.
OK, to help the comparison be illustrated for you more I'll make a different comparison.
President Nixon provided money to various charities and numerous other philanthropic services. That didn't stop him from being impeached. There you go. That solved the confusion you were having. If you'd like to learn more, please visit your local library and go to the "History" section and educate yourself. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 04:19:00 -
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Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Is that a defense? I can't really tell. Either way it does make him extremely scummy. It's not a defense against what he did, it's a defense against exaggeration of what he did. He didn't try to have anything happen. Yeah actually he did. That's why he's not CSM. The punishment would have been a lot more severe if he had. Are you trying to argue that he didn't highlight a player struggling with depression and encourage the community to send said player mail in the hopes he'd kill himself? Your argument being that if he did do this he'd been punished more harshly? Sounds like he should have been punished more harshly.
Ah, we've reached this point of an EVE thread. Good to see the classics never die. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 04:21:00 -
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Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:Cameron Freerunner wrote:So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes So. Many. Nested. Quotes LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 04:31:00 -
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Montey Haul wrote:Brahan Seer wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:So as to appease the people accusing sites like CrossignZebras.com, EVENews24.com, TheMittani.com etc. as well as tossing in EVE focused YouTube channels.
Is the promotion of using an Amazon referral link to buy PLEX, which would give a small percentage based kickback to the referrer a violation of any of CCP's policies? For example, I run the YouTube channel YouTube.com/UbaStij and after doing a video on say "How To Align Like A Pro" I mention there is an Amazon link in the description which leads to Amazon's store to buy a PLEX. I state "buying a PLEX through this Amazon link will help keep me operating this service for you the consumer." Is that permitted?
What if I operated the channel with several underlings who were compensated for their contributions in ISK and not through real money? Is it still permitted to promote purchasing through our Amazon referral link to maintain our overhead costs?
I know this has been answered previously, but some people make the assumption that doing so is no different than the scheme Somer Blink tried last year and this time around and I'd like to have CCP's stance. CSM can weigh in if they want but considering they aren't actually the policy makers it's not going to win people over in my assumption. Ridiculous. You want fair than yeah you should be banned siggy creators should be banned killboards should be banned. They get isk and have an account business related. The EULA clearly states you can't have an EvE account or play EvE for business purposes. Do I think thats right? No. But its the rules so if were going to **** SomerBlink than everyone should get ****** equally for that is justice.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4933917#post4933917
HTH LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 05:05:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s
Should share that with CCP's Internal Affairs team as well as the Security team then. If you feel it's actual RMT and needs to be stopped.
[email protected] LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 05:07:00 -
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KayleInara wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s You really have no idea what RMT is do you?
It's what Goons do. Duh. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 05:17:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote:KayleInara wrote:crimsonshank wrote:Video of CCP - Soundwave at Fanfest telling the Audience to get in you need to be a member of SA to join goons proving they are RMTing and need to be banned swiftly and justly like Somer http://youtu.be/j1sdTzj9iac?t=4m55s You really have no idea what RMT is do you? To join SA you pay $10, clearly stated you need to join SA in the video to join goons, correct me if I am wrong.
Out of curiosity, do you not think that since 2008 (and before) CCP haven't bothered to look into or determine if it is RMT? And if so, do you not recognize that they were ok with it going on despite it being your own personal classification of RMT? LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:32:00 -
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Mallak Azaria wrote:Deka Ekato wrote:I really do feel, (and from what I understand), that Somer was not punished for RMT, (which he should be), but for some other reason(s). There is basically 3 reasons he was punished. The first is the RMT, the second would be falsely claiming that the scheme as it is was CCP approved, the third would be publicly posting the private emails with CCP.
Incorrect. RMT was not, in any capacity, mentioned as why he was banned. That is specifically stated by CCP Falcon in the OP. It was only stated that Somer was investigated for alleged RMTing but that CCP will not comment on what their investigation found.
ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:.. its not just EVE Related. http://imgur.com/sCn0H1uThe scenario is basic, certain 3rd parties use ISK to pay EVE Players to create EVE content & services.... This is supposely OK"ed And one (possibly more) of the 3rd parties uses ISK to pay EVE Players to create content & services that have nothing to do with EVE Online. This hasnt been answered, and will most likely get ignored unless more focus is shined on it. Multiple CSM are a part of the "entity" that is doing it so they will deflect away from this. There is also the forum crashers & non sense wing working at odds ends to cover up / jam up everything as best they can.
You will need to provide proof that TMC is paying it's writers in-game ISK explicitly for their non-EVE related work then. You're making claims based off zero provided evidence outside the fact that TMC covers non-EVE content. They are well within their write to cover non-EVE games, they aren't however permitted to pay any writer EVE's in-game ISK for non-EVE content. This has been stated numerous times because last year after the Somer debate, CCP went to those sites and laid out the guidelines. If you have evidence that proves they're paying their staff. You also are linking to an image that is over a year old (pro-tip how do I know? Because I worked for TMC and know their pre-SomerGate 1.0 policies and post-SomerGate 1.0 policies and that is pre-SomerGate policy). Still though, if you're dead set on it being illegal RMTng then contact CCP and explain how it's a violation of the policies.
LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Hendrick Tallardar
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:39:00 -
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Garai Nolen wrote:Now I'm imagining a Puffin round-up...
I'm now imagining a Pompeii like area of Iceland, just with penguins instead of humans.
MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:Since we are discussing people who violate the EULA in order to generate real life income, I feel it might be worth mentioning the Mittani.com, which also appears to violate the EULA (or at the very least occupy a grey area). The EULA States:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
The Mittani.com pays its contributes with in game currency, and then profits in ad revenue from the content thereby generated. This does not appear to be straight forward RMT. However, it is exchanging in game items for out of game services. Essentially isk is being sold in exchange for out of game labor (which then generates real life income).
It does not specify in the EULA that only direct monitory transactions are prohibited. Thus, it seems reasonable to assume that it also covers transactions involving non liquid assets and services as well. Especially considering the following: if someone was wealthy out of game and decided to, say, bankroll an alliance by offering (non- monetary) services or assets to an individual who was wealthy in game in exchange for isk, then CCP would likely appeal to this clause when taking sanctions against the involved players. However, unless the clause is read in such away that it extends to non-monetary out of game goods and services it is not clear that they would be able to. If this reading of the EULA is correct then it appears that themittani.com violates it.
Thus it appears that another popular eve website may have been violating the eve EULA for years as well (also in order to generate real life revenue).
That's all well and good, except CCP approved paying people in-game ISK for EVE related content including videos for AT ads, forum signatures, and yes even articles. It's why sites like DotLan, ZKillboard, etc. are allowed to function while running Ads. Considering TMC, EN24, CZ and other sites were spoken to by CCP after the SomerGate 1.0 issue last year about their payment methods to their contributors and the specific guidelines they're required to follow, I'm going to assume you're bringing this up with little to no understanding of the differences nor the guidelines they're to follow, and simply want to point the finger at someone else and rumor monger while you're at it.
Still though, as regularly stated in this thread by people who are making these brazen claims sans contradicting evidence and the statements by CCP of old if you think they're breaking EULA contact CCP Falcon and CCP's Support team [email protected] outlining how they've broken EULA/TOS in your mind. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 16:54:00 -
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MRS AWSOME COOL wrote:Ah fair enough. In that case is there an actual explicit statement on what is or is not ok? Because the EULA itself is extremely ambiguous and doesn't cover any of the stuff just mentioned.
Ask CCP Falcon to direct you to it. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:07:00 -
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As it was explained to you. Paying for an SA account doesn't immediately qualify you for membership in GoonSwarm. Nor does any of that money go anywhere near to support or fund GoonSwarm's in-game activites. Until you can actually prove the $10/account (and other fees) actually do so, you're making one heck of a conjecture.
crimsonshankand the image http://i.imgur.com/sCn0H1u.jpg how much more evidence is needed to get the ball rolling into an investigation to get bans handed out appropriately and swiftly?
Goon lovers go ahead rebut the claims its in black and white and clearly stated and even on video![/quote wrote:I'm happy you're openly admitting you want to see people banned for non-violations of the EULA/TOS and for actions that don't violate any of the rules based off faulty, incompletely, and poorly supported assumptions made by you. As stated, that image isn't representative of TMC's policy post SomgerGate 1.0 when they, along with other sites, were given clear guidelines to operate by. That however, seems to not matter to you which is telling. crimsonshankTo break it down for the goon lovers with Mattani's balls over their eyes like Arabian Sun Goggles In the video it clearly states to join Goons you need an SA account, now in order to get the account with SA you have to pay $10, so you need to pay $10 to join Goons which is RMT. So, you're now just going for brazen insults and ad hominem which is against EULA/TOS. Perhaps you should be banned from the forums permanently as this is one of numerous examples. I mean, fair is fair right? You also don't need to have an SA account to join Goons. Here's some examples: Enlightened Industries - Formerly of TEST, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. Bat Country - Formerly of Vanguard, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. Black Omega Security - Formerly of Pandemic Legion, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. Graduate Investments - Formerly of RAZOR, now part of GoonSwarm Federation. That's four different corps that make up GoonSwarm that were admitted into their group without requiring an SA account as you claim. There are members in GoonWaffe who are in there without having an SA account nor requiring to have one to be a member. Please stop making things up and claiming them as fact, you end up looking silly when you do. [quote=crimsonshank wrote: The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month, what does Astronomy have to do with Eve? Nothing now Goon lovers take off the Arabian sun goggles open your eyes the evidence doesn't lie.
No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined. You're making assumptions and conclusions based off limited evidence and simply are filling in the holes to serve your own need. Still though, if you are so upset and so sure it's a giant RMT scheme then contact [email protected]
Also the ad hominem doesn't really do you any favors and just shows you're too immature to have a conversation with but hey, I guess that was your goal. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:14:00 -
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Paranoid Lunatic wrote: Ok so if CCP gave the green light to TMC to pay people in isk for services rendered (articles) and TMC receives real life money for people going to his site by way of add or what have you then according to the EULA that is RMT and CCP SAYS THAT IS OK. If CCP allows any form of RMT then we will always have problems. There needs to be a rule set in stone about RMT with no exceptions. That way there will be no discretion as to what is RMT and that will cut down on all the accusations, which will in turn give CCP more time to deal with more pressing matters.
I suggest you read what CCP say about allowing to run ads on a site you own, and paying your contributors ISK for their EVE related content the site hosts. This line of thinking is highly flawed. Anyone creating YouTube videos with monetization is, in your flawed assumption of the policies CCP outline, would constitute RMT. Never mind that CCP have said you can monetize your EVE videos and provided their outline as to such.
Still though, if you and others are so dead set that TMC, EN24 etc. are all RMTng and breaking CCP's rules then contact CCP and explain how, why, and provide supporting evidence. Calling something RMTng doesn't make it automatically RMTng though. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:29:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote:So the only compensation ever stated from TMC is ISK but your not willing to acknowledge that?
So heres how it looks If I wrote an article about the big dipper according to that image and I got the most views out of everyone who writes for TMC I get Compensated an extra 1bil isk how is the compensation not outlined?
No, but again you're making a really good job of jumping to conclusions. TMC pays their staff that write about EVE IP in ISK. Anything written outside of EVE IP is covered in a different way. For example, and this isn't explicitly what TMC do but you'll just assume it is and make claims based off of it anyway, the development of the front end site design, coding etc. can be compensated for with real money raised through the site's ads. So can things like non-EVE related video editing for coverage of a non-EVE game etc. Whether or not TMC opts to disclose that information to public is their prerogative but that doesn't automatically mean all articles are compensated for with in-game ISK regardless of if the article is pertaining to EVE IP or not.
Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. Whether you actually believe that is entirely up to you, but given that I'm a former contributor and former Senior Videos Editor for the site I'd probably have more understanding of how they operate than you do. Still though, as I've been saying to you and the other people decrying TMC as an RMT scheme, contact CCP's Security and Community Management teams raising those concerns and see what they say. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:34:00 -
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Mark Munoz wrote:I think the key difference in videos you generate or get for no in-game items and then monetize is different. There is nothing stopping streamers, or capture crowd from generating those videos then monetizing them on a platform. However if they paid ISK to make content happen so that they could record then monetize, that would be different.
Actually there is. If you don't have the permissions from CCP, which they hadn't given for many years until recently, you weren't permitted to monetize videos on YouTube that used EVE IP (i.e. in-game assets which would basically be anything you fraps'd etc.). CCP, prior to them granting the permission to monetize, could send a Copyright Strike against the YouTube user and the video would be pulled per YouTube's policy.
That, for many years, prevented people like Scott Manley from making any money off his EVE videos. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 17:46:00 -
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Probably the latter thinly veiled as the former. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 18:17:00 -
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Soldarius wrote:MRS AWSOME COOL wrote: I'm no goon lover, but that picture appears to be pretty old (since reddit no longer links Mittani articles), and the SA thing doesn't appear to be RMT either since the money is not going to people who make the decisions in game. Its like starting a corp for people at your university - that should be ok, even though you have to pay a tuition fee to be a member fo the university.
That's actually a really good comparison. SA membership does not give any in-game assets. One need not play Eve to be a goon.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 18:30:00 -
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Soldarius wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Cool. What do I win? If you say it requires a 500M isk security deposit... Also, I would like to point out that if TMC were to pay it's contributors in cash, would the site not be liable for taxes on said payments? Using fake currency (ISK) would be an interesting way of circumventing those tax laws.
Yes they are. It'd require a 1099-MISC form on the US Tax Return due to the staffer being considered a "Freelance Writer" and so forth. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 20:47:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote:Until TMC is shut down, Mittens is banned and Goons become Test reborn then I will stop my crusade or until my sub runs out and I quit this game all together.
You flailing about making accusations and claims about how they operate, without any supporting evidence other than assumptions and your own extrapolation based off limited information is pretty funny. You admitting you're doing it with the sole intent to get someone banned for not breaking the rules by running a website and paying the contributors in ISK is also funny. You doing it, while crying about ulterior motives of CCP/CSM is just priceless. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 21:34:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined. You're making assumptions and conclusions based off limited evidence and simply are filling in the holes to serve your own need. Still though, if you are so upset and so sure it's a giant RMT scheme then contact [email protected]Also the ad hominem doesn't really do you any favors and just shows you're too immature to have a conversation with but hey, I guess that was your goal. Pump the brakes now you just said payment is in ISK can you make up your mind on the subject
No, you're just willfully being ignorant. On TMC, all EVE-related articles are paid for in ISK, any non-EVE related articles are paid for through non in-game means. Pretty simple to comprehend. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.21 23:37:00 -
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crimsonshank wrote: This is what TMC is doing regardless of how the Goon lovers wearing Arabian sun goggles make it out to be.
I'm glad you're still so worked up and throwing ad hominem at people explaining to you how it's permitted per CCP's policies and how paying for EVE articles in ISK, and non-EVE articles in a different manner doesn't make it RMT. Let alone Mark admitting his point asserting that it was RMT is actually incorrect at a later point. It's not really that hard to comprehend, please don't be so quick to insult people because you're being proven wrong time and time again. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 03:35:00 -
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ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct?
No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 03:41:00 -
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ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That's not said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. Please clarify for the record!
Sure.
N-O, T-M-C D-I-D-N-'-T D-O T-H-A-T. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:09:00 -
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John Ending wrote:this thread jumped the shark 15 pages ago
More like after the first post. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:15:00 -
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ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:ExplorerAlTNewb wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Your example is also flawed because per TMC's internal policy, and by CCP's guidelines, you can't be compensated with in-game ISK for a non-EVE contribution to the site. . So to get the record straight, TMC use to pay ISK to EVE Players for Non-EVE related contributions and was then contacted or made aware from CCP that this isnt allowed and corrected there policy. Is this correct? No. That was never said nor implied in anyway other than your own conjecture. TMC compensates a contributor who provides EVE IP related content (articles/streaming/videos) with ISK. That is what CCP deem acceptable and enforce it as such. Anything non-EVE related has no EVE based in-game reward or ISK compensation associated. So again, I'm not getting how it's hard for people to comprehend the differences but this thread has gone from a discussion on Somer's behavior to a thinly veiled "Grr Mittani/TMC/Goons" bitchfest so it's not all too surprising asinine conclusions are being drawn up from nothing. Can you help me understand what is on this page then? http://themittani.com/news/april-tmc-update-real-space-streamers-and-dota2Snip from said page: http://imgur.com/FbR3UybThis looks like its pay isk for non eve stuff ... what says you?
Then yes, that was what the payment method was. You'll note past tense verbs given that, if you check the date of the article, it was published half a year before Somer Blink 1.0. As stated as well, numerous times for you so you didn't miss out on it, CCP have told sites like TMC to adjust that method. Failure to do so results in punishment. If you have evidence they currently pay in-game ISK for non-EVE IP related content for the site, you'd best provide that to CCP's Security and Community Management teams. Again, not very difficult to understand. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:25:00 -
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Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go.
Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies.
crimsonshank wrote: You have too said it ,might want to stop posting and actually read what you are typing, go back a few pages you said in two posts the payment for their articles on TMC is unidentified, then on the same page TMC paid their writers in ISK. You flip flop more then a fish out of water. At least stick to one side or the other for Christs sake
Hi, please take the time to read the context of what was said. The comment where you claim I'm "flip flopping" on was the response to you saying:
"The image clearly shows text writing an article about anything including Astronomy you get paid for your articles and the one with the most views gets a 1bil isk bonus at the end of the month"
Which was replied to with
"No. The text shows you can get compensated for writing an Astronomy related article but the specific payment isn't outlined."
Which means, the image shared perviously doesn't say how a non-EVE article is compensated for with non-EVE payment, nor does it say it is compensated for with in-game ISK/EVE goods. TMC, to my knowledge, have not stated publicly how they compensate for non-EVE content, only with how they pay for EVE content on the site to the contributor. You're really trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Oh also it's not flip flopping if it's the same message stated over and over again. So please try to read up on the right terms you want to use before posting. Thanks. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:34:00 -
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Derrick Miles wrote:Hendrick Tallardar wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:I must admit that does look like it's crossing the line. But I don't think you should be airing it out on the forums even still, contacting CCP security would be the way to go. Read the date on the article, it's from April 2013. The SomerGate 1.0 took place in October 2013 which brought CCP addressing sites like TMC regarding those policies. There is a more recent article also advertising for the same, as well as Hearthstone and Warframe writers in July of this year.
http://themittani.com/features/july-site-update-quiet-days
Please point to where they say they'll pay for non-EVE content with in-game ISK? CCP's policy doesn't prohibit them from hiring non-EVE writers. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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Posted - 2014.08.22 04:56:00 -
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Derrick Miles wrote: You're absolutely correct, my mistake, I didn't see that there was no explicit mention of paying in isk in the latest post.
You have to admit though with the first post saying they're hiring for isk and the second saying they're still hiring, the implication is pretty strong and a misleading conclusion easily reached.
Yes, if you ignore the fact CCP and TMC have changed that policy from 18 months ago six months after the April 2013 post was made. Something that has been stated numerous times. LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
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